Update on the Curious Case of the "Whitemaraner"

I've received a surprising number of emails and comments regarding the mystery of the "Whitemaraner". In fact, my blog post has had nearly 500 visitors in less than 24 hours. So I thought I would make another post with some new information I have gathered.

First of all, a couple of people have written to shed some light on the dog in the photo that appeared in the previous post. Apparently it is from a breeding of a Weimaraner and a GSP that has some Weim blood. So that would explain the grey color; both parents were able to transmit the dilution factor to the pup. And that seems to confirm the idea that you simply cannot get the dilute grey color in any first generation cross to a Weim. The recessive dilution factor has to be found on both sides of the pedigree.

US bred dog. Pedigree unknown.
But I also received reports from other folks telling me about white Weims in the US and in Germany. In the US, they are called "piebald" and there are reports of entire litters having the same sort of white and grey coat and even some grey "ticking" on the white background color. I am not sure what the Germans call them, but as indicated in the previous post, they would not be allowed to breed even when they come from pure grey parents.

And it turns out that DNA tests have been indeed indicated that some of the dogs in the US and in Germany are in fact from the all-grey purebred parents listed on the pedigree.

US bred dog from two
pure grey parents.
Of course, that does not eliminated the possibility of cross breeding further back in the family tree. It only proves that the parents are who the breeder says they are. Cross breeding may have happened further back, perhaps in the grandparents' generation or great grandparents' generation. And it could have happened even further back, so far back that it could be a case of atavism.

Atavism is a biological tendency for organisms to revert to an ancestral type or to suddenly manifest traits have not been seen in many generations. In humans there are cases of babies being born with vestigial tails or with larger than normal canine teeth. Horses can sometimes have extra toes and there have been cases of dolphins and whales with vestigial hind legs.

And there are a number of things that can cause atavism. Genetic mutations may trigger traits that have been dormant in the DNA for many generations, to suddenly re-appear. A significant change in the timeline of fetal development can also lead to atavistic traits; if the development period is cut short or goes on too long, atavism can occur.

US bred "piebald" Weim.
This dog's parents are both AKC registered pure grey Weims.
No one knows the exact makeup of the Weimaraner. There are many theories about how it came to be and I explore some of them here and here. But no matter what the exact recipe was, I think everyone agrees that at some point in time, Pointers and Setters must have been included in the list of ingredients. So maybe the white comes from way back in the early days when the breed was first being created.

Same dog as in the photo above. From all reports, she is a fantastic
hunter and a real sweetheart.  Personally, I think she is a great looking dog!
So what exactly are we seeing when we see a white Weim?  Is it the result of some shady cross breedings in the recent past? Is it a fluke of nature; the result of a viral illness during gestation? Or is it a throwback to the very beginnings of the breed?

My guess is: "all of the above".  I believe that there has been some cross breeding done in the last 40 years and breeders certainly cross bred to create the breed in the late 1800s. But given the huge numbers of Weims born every year -- more than 20 thousand pups per year world wide -- the chances of other more 'fluke of nature' causes are probably high enough to explain at least some of the white Weims out there.

Another Weim in the US with a similar coat. Its pedigree is not known.
And it turns out that white coat issues don't just apply to Weims. In response to my last blog post, a friendly reader sent me a link to a very interesting and article about white in another self-colored gundog breed, the Vizsla.  It is called "Understanding White" and it was published in the Vizsla Canada Newsletter, Vol.7, No.4, September/October 2001. Here are a couple of passages that are about Viszlas but could just as easily be about Weimaraners:

When discussing white, it is important to keep in mind that the presence and extent of white markings are not entirely under genetic control. As early as 1957, referring to experiments done by Sewall Wright nearly four decades earlier, Clarence Little cautioned that: “an appreciable amount of variation in the extent of body-surface pigmentation is usually non-genetic in nature.” Without discounting the primary role of genes, it seems reasonable to think that various factors other than genetic can influence the distribution of pigmentation cells or perhaps, even interrupt it at times. We know that some factors may delay the normal pigmentation process as happened with the puppy mentioned earlier and there will no doubt be cases where the process is not only delayed but interrupted altogether. These factors could be anything from environmental to nutritional. 

Being aware of (this) might assist in avoiding hasty conclusions about the parentage of some Vizslas, often from field bred strains, that exhibit a considerable amount of white. In those cases, casual observers are sometimes quick to conclude that a dog is of impure breeding and whispered accusations of crossbreeding to Pointers follow suit. Such breedings, accidental or deliberate, may indeed have taken place but we should always keep in mind that dogs with considerable amounts of white might also be produced from the breeding of two purebred Vizslas.

Breeders whose primary selection criterion is field performance may not select against white... as rigorously as breeders whose primary focus is the show bench or may not select against it at all. If selection against (white) is not a priority with a particular breeder, it can be expected that this breeder may produce more dogs with white markings and with larger white markings than a breeder who makes selection against white markings a priority.  It would be my suggestion that not a few cases of rumoured crossbreeding simply involve a purebred Vizsla...


  1. Wow, very interesting post. Thanks for gathering all of those pictures of white weims throughout the US. I think they are very good looking dogs!

  2. Dear Craig Koshyk,
    a good friend has asked me about your blog, I do not follow any of those as a internet dino - helas.
    You are right: you better take a given exterieur phenomenon at a time and investigate it thoroughly before formulating strong hypotheses - preferably study the case initially by DNA fingerprinting togehter with the parents in order to prove the indicated parenthood. Then a number of different genes is to be DNA sequenced. We do not know all of them yet which are to be included, since many a gene might apparently influence coat color finally.
    We would be interested to look further into Weims with special coat colors, given that we get blood also from the verified sire and the dam, as long as the latter are true Weimaraners.
    Jörg T. Epplen

  3. http://colorgenetics.info/canine/spotted-weimaraner-kit-gene-strikes-again#sthash.uEc0W4g4.2tkk2LME.dpbs

    Saw this and thought of you Craig :)

  4. Beautiful, functional dogs. Beautiful men, too. Thank you for the lovely article and keep up the good work. Your posts are informative, which is a welcome alternative to the mob mentality that afflicts so many dog folk.

  5. Hey Craig... I am the author of the Understanding White article... Nice to see it re-surface! :-)


  6. I have a weimer she is from a blue same & silver sire she is speckled & I've never seen one like her.

    1. Well not purebred then. Blue is NOT a weimaraner color.

    2. Get over yourself, blues may not be showable but they are 100% weimeraner. Many folks are looking for the breeds agility, performance and health rather than their appearance at face value. Blues can still be AKV registered and serve an invaluable purpose within the breed for utilitarian work, which is, after all, what the breed was originally designed for. It's funny that your elitism leads you to that specific opinion, when a thorough understanding of genetics and probability can tell you the opposite. Variance is a natural process in nature as is evolution, so to say this gene is inferior is to say the design of weimeraners as a breed is flawed. As an owner I hope that you will focus more on the weimeraners future and the necessary traits that will keep them alive and thriving long after we're gone, instead of getting hung-up on a harmless cosmetic trait.

  7. I am very interested in a piebald if you or anyone reading this comes across one for sale or adoption, I am a Weim owner. J_youell@yahoo.com


  8. I am also interested in having a piebald weim in my household, they are beautiful, I have a 12yr old weim and a 2yr old gsp. Would love to add to my family.

  9. I am also very interested in owning a piebald. Have a GSP and Weim so this one would fit right in. Please email lyndabalins@gmail.com

  10. I am also very interested. Currently own a GSP and Weim so this one would fit right in. We also live on a farm. Please email lyndabalins@gmail.com

  11. Another interesting article about the spread of the kit gene (see below). I took an epigenetics class 2 years ago too that said that methylation patterns could be turning off the kit gene. Methylation is something that isn't studied greatly at this point due to cost per sample but it's going to show up more and more as methods get cheaper. Epigenetics can be thought of as the punctuation marks of the genome.


  12. These are german short-haired pointers with a "blue gene"

  13. Search @lucy_and_Benson on Instagram. Sister Weims from the same litter. One grey and one blue piebald. Quite interesting.

  14. I think they're very beautiful Dig and what I've seen have fantastic kind n form. Damn fine Wuail n Duck. A friend has one.
    I just got lucky today and found 2 Piebald make ouos just born.
    I am working on getting the one that on its back it has a gray pattern that looks like Mickey Mouse

  15. I am very interested in a piebald if you or anyone reading this comes across one for sale or a tipp. I am a Weim owner.

    Please write me a message